Britax Two-way är inte på långt när urvuxen på längden ännu för vår dotter som är ungefär 110 cm lång. Det är stor skillnad mellan den stolen och de flesta andra stolar godkända att användas bakåtvänt till 25 kg. Titta bara på min frontbild där två lika stora barn sitter i Two-way respektive Hi-way.
När Axkid kom ut med sina stolar var jag mycket glad att de verkade långa i ryggen och jag mätte att deras nackstöd inte lika snabbt skulle ta i axlarna som nackstödet i Britax Multi-tech. Men det jag då missade var att Axkids nackstöd måste komma ner några cm för att internbältena ska kunna låsas. Det finns en skåra, ett streck, i panelen under nackstödet och den skåran får inte synas. När jag nu mätte höjden till nackstödet igen och beaktade det här blev höjden ungefär lika som i Multi-tech:en, kanske en cm mera utrymme i Axkid än Multi-tech.
Edit: Satte till bilder och studerade stolen en gång till. Framifrån ser det bra ut i Axkid och nackstödet är inte heller för högt upp.
Men bakifrån ser det ut så här och själva nackstödet är ganska tunnt. Möjligen är det ok då nackstödet inte är för högt upp. Och stadigt känns det. Men inte kan det fungera länge till.
Rygghöjden har också med profilen att göra. Precis som när Akta Graco Bilbarnstol Belogic är högre i ryggen än Britax Hi-way II trots att måtten är de samma. Dessutom kan nackstödet ha lite olika form. Så jag ska hålla er informerade om när min dotter växer ur Multi-tech och Axkid Kidzone/Kidzofix (när nackstödet kommer för högt upp enligt manualen menar jag). Det är det enda sättet att på riktigt veta. Måttband hjälper inte. Edit: jag tänker fråga Axkid om stolen är urvuxen redan nu. Jag och min man diskuterade detta senare på kvällen och är beredda att gå över till Britax Two-way som det ser ut nu.
När jag diskuterade skåran och nackstödet med Axkid frågade jag om man på stora barn kan känna efter att bältena inte går att lösa och då veta att nackstödet är i rätt höjd. De menade att det fungerar. Om det också fungerar i praktiken är jag ändå inte helt säker på. Det är väl bäst att då och då kolla hur långt barnet blivit. Till 110 cm borde stolen fungera bra (men det beror kanske också på hur lång rygg barnet har).
Här på sidan 9 i deras manual ser ni vad det här handlar om: http://www.axkid.se/images/axonkids/manualer/Kidzone_svenska.pdf
Axkids stolar är fortfarande bland de största på marknaden, ungefär i storleksklass med Britax Multi-tech. Och de har lång smidig internsele. Den stol som med råge är längst i ryggen är Britax Two-way. Hur långt dess internsele räcker kan jag inte uttala mig om, men för mina 110-centingar är det inga problem åtminstone.
En stol som också är lång i ryggen är Klippan Triofix. Den går att få lika lång bakåtvänt som den är som framåtvänd bältesstol (men internselen är inte högre än på andra stolar). Bara den stolen kommer ut i en version godkänd bakåtvänt till 25 kg blir den ett efterlängtat bidrag till bakåtvända bilstolsutbudet för större barn.
Hittills har min dotter vuxit ur: Besafe iZi Combi/Kid X3 ISOFIX och Maxi-Cosi Mobi. Hon håller på växer ur Britax Multi-tech (axlarna börjar ta emot) och jag tyckte nackstödet såg lågt ut också i Britax Hi-way II så den stolen tänker jag inte mera använda då vi har större stolar.
Ännu ryms hon bra i Akta Graco Belogic, Britax Two-way, Britax Secura och Axkid Kidzone/Kidzofix men jag tycker också rygghöjden börjar se aningen kort ut i Axkids stolar då jag räknar med den fasta delen av ryggstödet. Britax Fix-way är lika stor som Secura men officiellt godkänd bara till 18 kg. Inofficiellt kan man ha den ända till 24 kg då den också har underförankringsremmar och bara väger 13 kg i sig själv (13+24 kg = 37 kg). Hon ryms också bra i Klippan Triofix, men den vågar jag bara använda till 20 kg (den är godkänd till 18 kg) och hon väger nu 19 kg. Hon ryms också ännu i Klippan Kiss (=Akta Graco Duologic II) som också den är godkänd bara till 18 kg.
Brio Zento har jag inte testat på en tid, borde kanske göra det också för den är också känd som lång i ryggen.
Marginalerna borde inte få vara så här små. Det finns många barn som tidigt blir långa och alla borde kunna få åka bakåtvänt till fem år.
Fast det kanske tröstar att jag en gång räknade ut att praktiskt taget alla barn enligt statistiken ändå borde rymmas bakåtvänt åtminstone tills de fyller fyra. Då beaktade jag de allra längsta barnen och sen de barn med den allra längst ryggen av de här barnen.
Edit: Jag satte bilbarnstolarnas namn som länkar. Antingen till en tillverkares sida eller till en nätbutik och då har jag valt en sådan som stött Bilstolslotsens verksamhet så att jag ska ha så heltäckande uppsättning av bilbarnstolar som möjligt, vilket är en förutsättning för att kunna vara objektiv i mina jämförelser av stolarna.
Hello, I just found your blog and would like to ask a question. In english because I´m German
I have a 3-year-old (turned 3 right now) who is 100cm tall and weighs 14.2 kilograms now. We are using the Akta graco Duologic II for him since 2 years and now his legs are quite long, he has not much space anymore. As well the harness shoulder straps are coming out of the seat below his shoulders and I have read that this is not correct (that´s since a long time anyway).
I am thinking of buying a ”bigger,longer” seat for him and would like to know which one you would recommend. I am thinking of the Kidzofix right now. Or is another one better? I think the isofix system has its benefits. Is there ANY seat with isofix up to 25 kilos?
Our baby could then change from the MaxiCosi to the DuologicII (now 9 months and 8 kg)-is that correct? Our cars are: Ford Mondeo (2008) and Ford S-Max (2011).
Thank you very much for your answer in advance!
Kind regards, Chris
Hi Chris,
sorry for the late reply, have not had access to my computer for a few days. English is fine. I read German too, but write less well in German.
First about your Duologic II. It is according to an expert I have consulted not dangerous if the harness shoulder straps are a little bit below the shoulders but if your son has a long back and you have experienced this for a long time I think it is a good idea to change to a bigger rear facing seat and give the Duologic II to your youngest. My soon five year old daughter is nog 110 cm tall and she still fits the Duologic II, but is over the weight limit as she is now 19 kg:s.
If you look att his blog post http://bloggen.fi/bilstolslotsen/2012/01/nya-bilstolsstandarder-blir-lag-pa-bakatvant-till-minst-15-manaders-alder/ you will find statistics about the height of the childs back at different statures. For children 100 cm tall 97,5% of all children have a back that is shorter than 37,8 cm. The standard height of the highest harness level is 40 cm. Only at 110 cm we start finding children (2,5%) that have backs taller than 40 cm. It might sometimes seem that the harness is lower than it actually is since this is not that easy to see as the child comes a bit forward from the back of the seat. However, the profile of the back of the seat also plays a role.
When I compare harness height of Britax Max-way, Maxi-Cosi Mobi, Axkid Kidzofix, Britax Two-way, Klippan Triofix (made by the same people that developed Duologic II, they now sell Duologic under their own brand as Klippan Kiss) with the height in Duologic II/Kiss I notice that there is quite a big difference. The highest harness level in Duologic II/Klippan Kiss is the same as the middle level in Britax Two-way. Two-way is the seat that probably can be used the longest. In this thread you can se quite a few pictures of older kids in Two-way: http://forum.mammapappa.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=27080&sid=2253adcfa55ae98622c30b0931fbaac4 (It is a forum in Swedish, this thread is all about photos of bigger kids in rear facing carseats, so should not be a problem for you).
When I compare harness levels in Mobi, Kidzofix, Max-way and Triofix the highest harness level is a few cm higher than in Duologic II/Kiss. Almost a whole ”step” but not as much as in Two-way.
There is no seat that can be used with ISOFIX more than 18 kg. But, inofficially there is one. It is called Britax Fix-way and uses the same isofix base as in Britax Babyschalen/Infantseats. It weighs only 13 kg and a Britax expert has told me that I can continue using it as long as the child will fit it. The isofix anchor points are made for 37 kg and in the future they will be approved for 33 kg which means that a seat weighing 10 kg can be approved for 25 kg (since the 23 kg dummy used for this testing will fit the weight limit). This is only valid for isofix seats that also have tether straps. Still there are no such seats and the new regulations that would allow this kind of approving will come in about two years. A bit to late for you then.
Axkid Kidzofix is a seat that you can use with isofix until 18 kg:s and then continue using rf installed with seat belt up to 25 kg:s. This seat is the one I use for my soon 5 year old in our Touran. When we place it in the middle back she enjoys lots of leg space. There are however no isofix anchoring points in the middle back and that is quite common in most cars.
Two things should be mentioned here too to answer your question. The first is that not only shoulder height of harness will define how long a child can fit a carseat. Many seats, including Kidzofix, is made so that the head of the child will come above the highest point of the back of the seat. And then it is up to you to decide when 1/3 of the childs head is above this line. That is when the seat is to small.
The only seats that does not have this ”problem” is Klippan Kiss (Duologic II), Klippan Triofix and Britax Two-way. The latter is actually similar to all the other seats but the seat shell, the back, is somewhat taller and the time when 1/3 of your childs head comes above the highest level will be postponed longer. In Triofix all of the childs head will be covered at all times.
http://www.klippan.fi/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=8&Itemid=65&lang=en
In the future Klippan would like to develop tether straps for Triofix. This would allow it to be used until 25 kg:s r.f. but with seat belt installation. I hope they will be successful in developing this and hope it will be made in such a way that parents can buy straps later for their older version of Triofix to convert it into a seat that can be used r.f. to 25 kg:s. I love this seat and will surely buy myself these tether straps when (if) they come.
Triofix in todays version still has less leg space then Duologic II/Kiss. So I don’t think it is your best choice anyway.
The second thing is that isofix is not that much safer for r.f. carseats compared to r.f. carseats installed with seat belt. Seat belt installation for seats like Britax Two-way, Max-way and Axkids seats is easy, quick and equally safe. The benefits of isofix is that perhaps parents will not forget to fasten the seat to the car and other children in the car cannot as easily open isofix anchorage as it is to unlock a seat belt. I have twice experienced that children guesting in our car have opened the seat belt that anchorage our childrens r.f. carseats. Probably by misstake, but still, it has happened.
Axkid Kidzofix is a seat that has quite long usage, is comfortable and easy to install. It requires quite a lot of room installed with isofix. Axkid has long harness and you will not face the problem that the harness gets to short. Notice, however, that the highest level of the necksupport is not the highest you can use. It has to come down some cm to lock the harness. Some people think Kidzofix has a very tall seat shell, I think it is about equally tall as Max-way.
Two-way is the seat that has longest r.f. usage of all until Triofix will be in a 25:kg-version.
Britax Fix-way can be used equally long as Kidzofix, perhaps longer, if you follow the recommendations by Robert Bell of Säkerhetsbutiken in Stockholm and continue using it with isofix after 18 kg:s. It also requres quite a lot of space and cannot be intalled using seat belt. It gives the child lots of leg space.
The only place that still sells it is this one:
http://www.lastenturva.fi/tuote/britax-fixway-turvaistuin-0-18kg-isofix-telakkaan/5012124049358/
You also need the base.
I would also consider Britax Max-way. http://www.britax-roemer.de/auto-kindersitze/auto-kindersitze/max-way
I hope I could help you!
Jeanette
Hi Jeanette,
I just found out – while re-reading the text here- that my answer some weeks ago has not been posted: Thank you very very much for your long and helpful reply!
We have decided to go for an Axkid now, after having tried some seats (Kidzofix, Britax MultiTech and MaxWay). I hope that it will last a while.
I have two other questions though: What is your opinion to ”filling storage boxes in the floor” of a car? I have read about it but is there any official recommendation from Axkid and/or Britax? I have only heard that BeSafe recommends to fill it with some styropor, right? Ford says that they can be used as they are -with a support leg standing on them. To me this does not feel safe.
And what do you think about the MultiTech2 from Britax? To me it seems to be a good seat for older kids but I don´t read that much about it. Is it not popular and if so, why?
Thank you very much for your answer in advance. Kindest regards and greetings from Germany,
Chris
Hi Chris,
Thank you for your reply and question! We also have storage boxes under the floor in our Touran. I have filled them with phone books. I also saw that there are styrophoam fillings awailable for Touran, but Phone books work as well – if they fill the box up completely. I got the idea after reading somewhere that car seat experts at http://www.sakerhetsbutiken.se (or was it http://www.carseat.se, however the two are connected) recommend using phone books if the support leg is too short. (I cannot guarantee that fact, but phone books are very stabile and does not cost anything). I cannot give any official recommendation other than you should not use the boxe un filled. Also one suggestion has been to cover the box with some iron plate. That might be easier for cars with huge storage boxes in the floors.
Multi-tech is a good seat. I like it very much. The only problem we have had with it is that it does not fit in cars where the seat belt buckle comes a bit out from the seat. This is often the case in the front seat (if using that seat for the child seat with the air bag switched off) but ofteh also in the back seat. In our Touran we could not fit Multi-tech properly. I had it in the middle for some time and tried to use a swimming needle under the seat to get it up and away from the seat belt buckle. But then I anyway felt the buckle was still to close to the belt locks of the Multi-tech (at the sides). But in my Passat 2003 it was a perfect seat. My daughter started complaining about the neck rest being too low on her and hurting her shoulders so earlier in the spring and I switched her to a Graco Belogic instead. Of course now in the summer she has less clothing so it might give the extra needed cm. Anyway she has outgrown Multi-tech and Hi-way II simultaneously. And we have now stopped using Axkids seats for her too. Though the neck rest is not at her shoulders. But I felt her head came a bit too high up above the supporting part of the back of the seat. In Multi-tech the neck rest is supporting – but not in Axkid. That is the main difference. And the buckle-problem will problably not arise in Axkid.
Multi-tech is perpaps less popular nowadays since it is not marketed that much anymore. It came out about 2007 when our oldest was born. And back then it was marketed a lot. It has also got low scores in the ADAC car seat test – it is however miscredited mostly since they report the safety result from using it forward facing and the ”ease of fitting” when it is fitted rear facing. Which is the common problem with convertible seats. Another thing is that is it only tested with the heaviest possible load 23 kg when tested rear facing. And compared to rear facing seats approved to 18 kg which are tested with only 14 kg this is a huge difference. It now since then also has a new support leg that at least for Hi-way II made a big difference in safety. Hi-way I was plus-approved to 18 kg (read about plus-test if you don’t know it) but hi-way II with the new leg was plus-approved to 25 kg. That is – it could withstand a bigger load and still protect the neck of the child properly. I think – I am not absolutely sure about this – frontal impact scores for rear facing mode is affected by how much the seat moves forward in the car. This limit is set too narrow – if I understood it correctly. And as far as I understood this limit is very easy to cross almost already when the seat is just being installed. It was something like 700 mm. As Multi-tech is a big seat it probably crossed this limit a bit. My guess. The safety score reward facing was 2,5 of 5 in frontal impact crash. Graco Belogic, also approved to 25 kg, got 4 or 5 (you can check it on the blog, I have the result listed for rear facing mode – originally published in Norway). The ADAC test does not give much weight to saving the childs neck. That is why also forward facing seats might get really good scores in frontal impact crash. So I don’t give much for this part of the test. But it is worth mentioning and discussing.
Good luck with your Axkid!
Jeanette
Chris
Ford has no idea. I was told the same thing a couple of years ago by Ford. The seller was very certain that nothing would happen, but when he put his knee to one of the lids, the lid broke.